Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

[kleptoman]

Might have to watch through the first series for this. Almost as good as that conspiracy theory around the weeping angels episode that turned out to be bang on.

[Agrajag]

Yeah it's pretty awesome. And that conspiracy theory turned out to be true so hopefully this one is too.

One thing to watch for is when they play the crack and/or silence sound effects. It's very definitely played after the scene in Beast Below (you can hear the bug noises that always accompany their appearances).

[Joopac_Badur]

Wow, I hope at least half of those turn out to be correct. I love how Moffet has created a multi-series arc out of all the individual episodes. I'm curious if it will expand into Series 7 when the time comes.

[Jim North]

Well shoot, I thought I was just gonna be rewatching The Lodger and The Impossible Astronaut today. Look like I'll have to go back over the entire previous season now, too.

[frazzledog]

Spoiler: show

And then here's a couple that I'm not really sure mean anything, but you can judge for yourself:

The Eleventh Hour - At 0:25 when the Doctor is hanging from the edge of the TARDIS, he looks up into the doorway and has a confused look on his face for a moment.

Victory of the Daleks - At 34:30 the Doctor looks to his side and seems startled. Amy and Churchill also look in that direction and look surprised as well.

I don't think these ones are Silence.

[Agrajag]

Yeah I don't think so either, that's why I put them under the "probs not" category. But I'd seen them mentioned so I thought I'd pass them along.

[Jim North]

Finally got around to watching all (most) of these scenes . . . spoiler'd for length 'n' stuff.

Spoiler: show

The Beast Below - At around 9:25 a black figure walks past Amy. She looks confused/scared for a couple of seconds then shrugs it off. The bug-noises that accompany the Silence in Impossible Astronaut play quietly immediately afterwards.

This one seems extremely iffy to me. She does look confused and a little worried, but she was just told that they've just stepped into a police state, and it looks like she's actually looking over at the Smiler in the booth. She also doesn't shrug it off . . . she looks generally unhappy all the way up to the scene cut to the Smiler itself. If she was looking at the person who'd just passed by her, it seems just as likely that it was one of the robed half-Smilers, who would have definitely stuck out in a crowd of folks dressed more or less like proper English gentlemen.

As for the bug noise . . . I dunno. It's too light to be sure, but it could just as easily have been the cranking gear noise of the Smilers as the bug-noises of the Silence.

The Lodger - Already mentioned earlier in the thread. At 21:45 Amy sees something and shouts, but then looks away and forgets.

This one, tho', yes, most definitely. I wasn't sure at first because it almost seems like she's just reacting a little oddly to what the Doctor is saying, but after re-watching the scene a few times, she's definitely reacting to something else entirely.

Vampires of Venice - When the three of them go back to the TARDIS at the end, its door is already open. It shuts by itself before they notice. 46:02 You can also hear what sounds like the door being opened a few seconds before that.

Unusual. The door being open can easily be explained . . . the Doctor went up to the TARDIS first, opened it himself, got partway through the door, then stepped back out when Amy mentioned taking Rory along with them, allowing the door to swing back closed a second or two later. Though he's not actually seen doing this on screen, it is still shown that he was in a position to do it.

However, moments later when Amy opens the door again, it looks as if she might be using her key to unlock the door. If that is what's happening, that raises the question . . . can the Silence get into the TARDIS without a key, or did they obtain a key at some point? Because if the Doctor did unlock and open the door himself, then it should have still been unlocked when Amy opened it. I thought for a second that maybe the door auto-locked when it closed, but given that people have opened it lots of times without the key, that can't be true.

This might be the moment that the Silence that Amy saw in The Lodger got on board.

The Big Bang - At 13:20 you can see shadows/cloaked figures standing behind the sarcophaguses. At 13:30, the camera pans and another shadowy figure becomes slightly in frame at the bottom right corner of the screen, but it quickly moves away.

Er . . . I've watched and re-watched this scene several times, and the only shadows I see are from the exhibits. I can see what might be mistaken for a cloaked figure, but it's just part of the display on the other side of the sarcophagus. The figure in the bottom right corner . . . well that I didn't see at all. I think this one is a complete dud.

Victory of the Daleks - At 34:30 the Doctor looks to his side and seems startled. Amy and Churchill also look in that direction and look surprised as well.

At 34:30, the Doctor looks around slightly, aimlessly, not to his side. Amy and Churchill then look up at the Doctor, not even close to the same direction as he was looking. In both cases, they're showing horror, shock, and disappointment, reacting to the news that the Daleks have gotten away. Definitely not the Silence.

Now, regarding The Eleventh Hour, since there's so many listed, I'll just watch the entire episode again, but I think I can knock the longest one right on over now . . .

Also also also the Eleventh Hour - At the end when Amelia is packing and then runs outside, there are some strange occurrences: the door in the hallway changes from closed to open, as do the drapes over her window. After she runs outside, a shadowy figure can be seen running through her room. At the time, most people thought it was Prisoner Zero, but now maybe it's actually a Silent? Since Zero should not have had any coma patients to turn into at that point in time.

That last sentence is a bit muddled, but it seems you're saying he was using coma patients, taking their form? Actually, he was taking people's forms, and that's what put them into comas. They didn't need to already be in one.

We don't know exactly how long he had been on Earth at that point, but even if he'd only been escaped for say an hour, that would have been plenty of time for him to have spotted a neighbor or even just someone out for a night stroll and taken their form.

[Agrajag]

I'll concede that Beast Below is iffy. Upon rewatching and comparing, the sound effects are not as similar as I originally thought.

Lodger is pretty definite, especially because the proto-TARDIS is in the episode.

Vampires - I suppose it could be that the Doctor opened it. This one is a bit iffy as well. And the TARDIS definitely doesn't auto-lock because 2 seconds after Amy enters it closes and Rory and the Doctor just push it open again.

The Silence don't necessarily need to have had a key. The Doctor could have opened it like you said, seen a Silent standing outside, turned to tell Amy/Rory and forgot, and then the Silent slips in the already opened door.

Big Bang - I thought it could be just part of the sarcophaguses too, but their positions relative to the front of the sarcophagus seem to change from shot to shot. Originally it looks like they're just the support/backing for it, but then later the seem to be placed further back and not actually touching the front piece. It could just be shadows that move because of set lighting or camera perspective though.

Also there is DEFINITELY a moving figure on the right side of the screen at 13:32. It could just be a production error (some camera man being slightly in shot or something) but it's there. You might not be able to see if it you're watching on a TV because of overscan. I'm looking at the iTunes version on my laptop and it's pretty obvious if you're paying attention and looking for it. Also I suppose it could be the Doctor? But not sure that fits into the episode's timeline. And they would probably notice if it was him.

Victory of the Daleks - I didn't think this was real to begin with so yeah.

Eleventh Hour - Yeah I know he put them into comas. Yeah I suppose we don't know how long he's been there, but the Doctor implies it takes some significant time for him to create a bond with a person and I thought maybe it wouldn't have been enough time. But I agree this is also super iffy.

[Jim North]

Lodger is pretty definite, especially because the proto-TARDIS is in the episode.

I'd say absolutely definite. Heck, even if it isn't one of the Silence, she's certainly reacting to something strange that we can't see. But given the way she goes "Hey!" and then suddenly follows it up with an uncertain "Hang on . . . " the scene perfectly fits the reactions that we see in The Impossible Astronaut.

Vampires - I suppose it could be that the Doctor opened it.

Indeed, but as I said, we don't actually see him opening it. It's only implied that that's what happened. And given that it also seems implied that Amy had to use her key . . . I feel pretty sure that you're right for pointing this one out, and that it happened the way you say, with the Doctor turning and forgetting the Silent he saw. Heck, the Silent might have actually grabbed the Doctor, turned him around, and pushed him a little ways.

Big Bang - I thought it could be just part of the sarcophaguses too, but their positions relative to the front of the sarcophagus seem to change from shot to shot. Originally it looks like they're just the support/backing for it, but then later the seem to be placed further back and not actually touching the front piece. It could just be shadows that move because of set lighting or camera perspective though.

Yah, like I said, it's actually a part of the thing on the other side of the sarcophagus, not a part of the sarcophagus itself. I figure that the reason it's more visible in the second and third shots is, yes, because they changed the camera position a little, but it might also be that they moved the sarcophagus itself just a little bit in between shots, revealing a little more of the . . . whatever it is. I thought it was a huge stone tablet at first, but it widens out at the base (which is where the "hooded figure" shadow comes from, it's the side of that base cast in darkness because the light's coming from the other side), so I'm not sure. Some ancient archaeological looking thing, anyway.

Also there is DEFINITELY a moving figure on the right side of the screen at 13:32. It could just be a production error (some camera man being slightly in shot or something) but it's there. You might not be able to see if it you're watching on a TV because of overscan.

A video on DailyMotion. That does seem possible, and I was actually wondering if that might be the case. But yah, even then, I'd personally figure it was just a grip who got in the shot.

Eleventh Hour - Yeah I know he put them into comas. Yeah I suppose we don't know how long he's been there, but the Doctor implies it takes some significant time for him to create a bond with a person and I thought maybe it wouldn't have been enough time.

Since the figure is, as you said, shadowy and barely seen, it could have just been the first stages of the bond. If we'd gotten an actual hard look at it, the figure might have been fuzzy, without details, like an outline of the person Zero was trying to mimic.

[Joopac_Badur]

In regards to "The Eleventh Hour" and Prisoner Zero having time to bond with people. He totally had plenty of time. Amelia acts as though the crack and the voice (Prisoner Zero has escaped!) have been there for a while. Days even. That's plenty of time for him to get into a body.

I definitely agree with the Lodger theories and potentially the Vampire one.

Also, did you guys notice in one of the promotional trailers for Series 6, you can totally see Amy and Rory in the TARDIS from Nine and Ten's era? Check it at :37. Perhaps the Silents have been there a lot longer than Eleven's tenure.

And another thing, considering that the Doctor at the beginning of "The Impossible Astronaut" is 200 years older than the one who shows up later, do you realize that Moffet may not reveal how the Doctor gets out of that pickle until the end of Series 6? In fact, it might be how Eleven actually regenerates whenever Matt decides to leave the role? Who knows what all the real-time Doctor might be up to before he finally faces the Spaceman. And considering how his regeneration was halted, this may be how Moffet writes in the Valeyard.

[Jim North]

Also, did you guys notice in one of the promotional trailers for Series 6, you can totally see Amy and Rory in the TARDIS from Nine and Ten's era? Check it at :37. Perhaps the Silents have been there a lot longer than Eleven's tenure.

Holy shit, they totally are. And . . . I dunno, this may just be silly, but doesn't it look like they might possibly be at Ten's regeneration into Eleven?

Y'know, I hadn't watched any of the S6 trailers before this. I mentioned before that this season has started on a bit of a dark note . . . looks now like the entire season might be chock full of particularly dark notes this time around.

[Agrajag]

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that we won't find out about the Doctor dying until the end of this season at least. And yeah there was some website that had screen caps from the trailer, and one of them definitely looks like 9/10's TARDIS. There was already that short promo episode where the 5th Doctor appears on the 10th's TARDIS, so maybe it'll be something like that? It definitely looks like a regeneration is happening. Both 9 -> 10 and 10->11 happened in the TARDIS so I guess it could be either? But Tennant is more likely to come back and shoot a cameo than Eccleston is so I'd bank on 10.

Also, if a Silent did get aboard the TARDIS at some point last season, it explains how they were able to direct it to the date of Amy and Rory's wedding and blow it up. It would be pretty easy to do given direct access to the controls. Also River hears a voice saying "Silence will fall" in The Pandorica Opens. It's presented as a strange mystery voice, but if a Silent was actually on the TARDIS at the time it would explain it all.

EDIT: Also, at the end of Vampires, when it zooms onto the lock on the TARDIS, you can hear bug noises again. And upon further further consideration, I really do think like it sounds the same as the effect in Beast Below. At least Vampires and Beast sound the same, even if they sound slightly different than the effect used in Astronaut. And in Beast she goes from happy and smiling to upset and confused in the space of like one second, so I still think there's something going on there.

[Joopac_Badur]

Man, I hope if they bring one of the old Docs back it's not Ten. He JUST left. If anything it needs to be Eight. Maybe the Silents got on board during the Last Great Time War. They appear to have some time-traveling abilities, at least enough to control the TARDIS, so hey, anything is possible at this point. Also, the trailers indicate that the Ood are going to be making a comeback (which is awesome.) Wonder where their place in Series 6 will be.

[Agrajag]

I'm hoping for 9, I love Christopher Eccleston. I think 9 and 10 are the only ones they could bring back without the actors looking significantly older than they should.

Also, if they really are present for 10's regeneration into 11, I think that possibly adds some credence to the "the Doctor looks confused while hanging from the TARDIS at the beginning of Eleventh Hour" theory. Since Amy and Rory would presumably be standing right there.

[Monkeychewtoy]

I feel I should mention that in the commentary on the Season 5 DVD, they mention that the shadowy figure in The Eleventh Hour is the Doctor. They even mentioned that they're annoyed he's wearing the wrong shirt. Remember when the Doctor had to go back in time and muck with his own timestream so Amy could remake the universe? That shadowy figure was him, mucking about.

Mind you, since they never really said that in a canonical sense, it's totally possible for them to retcon it and say, "Remember when we totally deliberately seeded Silents throughout the whole series? Man, that was great."

If I had to guess, I would say that they've been planning this since The Lodger, but no earlier.