so....how bout them egyptians...

[mst3ktomservo119]

general discussion

[MrSquishyDBC]

To be honest, I haven't followed the story as much as I should have. As far as I can gather, though, the rioters haven't been incredibly violent, and they are trying to implement a democratic government.

Really, as long as Egypt remains our political ally (especially regarding Israel), I don't have any strong feelings about it.

[Ben]

Really, as long as Egypt remains our political ally (especially regarding Israel)

They're both run by evil despots, what does one being an ally and one not have to do with anything?

[Knight]

Viva la Revolution!

[mst3ktomservo119]

been watchin Al-Jazeera, ny times, and cnn as well heres what ive seen
1. the protests in the countries have gotten violent but its the sec forces against the protestors not the other way around
2. the army is starting to side with the demonstrators, i.e. protecting them from state security forces
3. the move of mubarak to appoint a VP has greatly weakened his position and regime. the VP is a former head of spy intelligence, and the MP he's appointed is the commander of the air force
4. cell service has returned, still no internet
5. water has been cut off by a group of "thugs" in one of the larger districts
6. the citizens have created neighborhood patrols to protect themselves and have even assumed duties such as traffic and relief control. the citizens have created vigilante groups to protect themselves
7. the military arent fighting or firing on looters or "thugs" ( though they have urged civilians to protect their valuables)
8. an estimate 100 people have been killed ( many bodies indicate death by live fire or rounds)
9. the state security forces are brutal and committing crimes such as looting. forces are also forgoing rubber rounds in some instances and going straight to live fire
10. the protests have inspired other countries, yemen, jordan and Assyria among them to protest. all of this started in tunisia wherein the government was taken down. ( its like the domino affect seen in the cold war only theyre going towards democracy)
11. the protestors greatly outnumber the local security forces
12, before appointing said people, the president dissolved the govt. the pres and previous admin have been running under "emergency powers" since the 60's basically making them a totalitarian, one party gov't.
13. this thing is gonna change all of the middle east one way or another and is going to be pretty important point in history as far as the repercussions go.

edit: some info is outdated: only higher up sec forces remain, police, guards and such have disappeared leaving a large power vacuum

[MrSquishyDBC]

Really, as long as Egypt remains our political ally (especially regarding Israel)

They're both run by evil despots, what does one being an ally and one not have to do with anything?

The current Egyptian administration is at peace with Israel (one of the only countries surrounding Israel that isn't trying to destroy it). As long as that doesn't change, I'm happy.

13. this thing is gonna change all of the middle east one way or another and is going to be pretty important point in history as far as the repercussions go.

Yeah, that's why I'm interested in this. Things are getting crazy, but seemingly in a good way. I mean, shit could go down and the whole thing might become a disaster, but the protesters seem to be on the side of justice.

[kleptoman]

I find it hard to know what to think. I think our governments getting invovled would make it worse for one thing. But I also know that just because you overthrow a bad government, you get a good one. I think soon there may emerge figureheads for the protests, and these people should be very closely scrutinised, as this could be a great opportunity for the country, or for personal gain.

In related news this guy has returned to Tunisia. Read his policies. Rashid Al-Ghannushi seems to be for womens education and rights, non violence and non-muslims being able to enter government. Surely this must be a good thing.

[mst3ktomservo119]

if u want to keep tabs on this heres a link to a live video feed
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[Ben]

The current Egyptian administration is at peace with Israel (one of the only countries surrounding Israel that isn't trying to destroy it). As long as that doesn't change, I'm happy.

wow... really?
So the fact that they're run by a dictatorship and the people of the country are sick of it doesn't have any bearing on it? As long as they're cool with Israel that's all that matters?

Not the will of the people or anything?

[MrSquishyDBC]

Well, don't get me wrong, I don't want there to be an evil dictatorship or anything. But the most important issue to me is the Israel-Palestine conflict because that's more personal. Justice and civil rights are nice, too.

[mst3ktomservo119]

if they get a new regime in i dont think its going to be hostile towards Israel. the people are calling for a new government but they are also not allowing anybody ( for example the Muslim brotherhood) to take control or positions of influence within the protests. they're actually helping the military arrest them on sight. and for a people who are fighting for freedom and democracy, i doubt they're gonna turn around and immediately point their guns at Israel. but thats my feeling of the situation, and as an outsider looking in i might not be correct.

[Ben]

Well, don't get me wrong, I don't want there to be an evil dictatorship or anything. But the most important issue to me is the Israel-Palestine conflict because that's more personal. Justice and civil rights are nice, too.

That's kind of a repulsive point of view. You're ok with a corrupt totalitarian dictatorship in one country cause they like another country you like? You're fine with someone forming an emergency government after the assassination of the last president and holding on to the 'emergency law' for over 30 years. Shutting down all internet and phone communication in the country, using live fire rounds on crowds of protesters etc etc because they agree with your stance on Israel?

Sorry Squish but thats kind of evil.

[mst3ktomservo119]

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/ ... 35676.html
update on protests

[PyscoUno]

With Egypt it does sound like UK/US fed the corruption for our own ends (isn't Egypt on the list of countries we sent terrorist suspects to?).
When a government system or person is this desperate to stay in power, you can't exactly guarantee them to stay allies to anyone but themselves.

tho, it was understandable UK, US and Israel wanted to be carefully before jumping in with statements, cose revolutions can go downhill with more dictatorships but we didn't do much in way of pressuring Egypt not to torture political prisoners. Advice on putting in political reforms was clever move, Mubarak would be stupid not to put them in, stop torturing and call an election. Think Egypt is an area under a lot of economic strain with rising food prices.

Though if any protest is to be a concern for peace process or getting connected to this one too much, it is this one http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... apers-leak
related to http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/palestine-papers the leak either damaged the peace process or showed the peace process wasn't going on/working

plus after all of this i still wonder, how the frack Silvio is still in power

[mst3ktomservo119]

obama gets bashed by Israel for supporting the peoples regime change
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/ ... st=Twitter