Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

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Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Joopac_Badur » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:25 pm

Jim North wrote:Maybe we should just have an Ultimate Doctor Who Madness thread so we don't have to keep bothering with the spoiler tags.

And here we go.

And since we've been talking about the new series a bunch, what do you think of those cracks in the Universe that keep popping up? Obviously, they're probably going to be linked to whatever the series finale will be about (here's hoping to God it isn't the Daleks again, so fucking help me). Now, in the first episode, Prisoner Zero refers to them and says, "the Pandorica will open, silence will fall." Jim, you are our resident 'old-Who' nerd. Does the Pandorica ring a bell, or is this some new element to be added?
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Agrajag » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:50 pm

I hope to god it's not a redo of something from the original series, as that's what every finale has been so far and it's getting a bit old. New stuff please! The series 3 and 4 finales were pretty disappointing. I'm hoping this one turns out a bit better.

In other news, I noticed that this season has had way less civilian deaths. Usually people die all over the place, but until Angels we didn't really have any.

Also, I have a crazy theory that the church guys in Angels are part of the Church of the Doctor (because of how they all know about him, call him Sir, and say "we have faith" when the Doctor asks if they trust him). Or if they're not, they should do an episode about a group like that. A mystical being who travels through time and saves people/planets? He should have at least one religion by now. Or a cult.
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Jim North » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:26 pm

Joopac_Badur wrote:Now, in the first episode, Prisoner Zero refers to them and says, "the Pandorica will open, silence will fall." Jim, you are our resident 'old-Who' nerd. Does the Pandorica ring a bell, or is this some new element to be added?

It doesn't ring any bells for me, and a search of relevant sites brings up nothing besides references to The Eleventh Hour alone. The only guess I can find is the possibility that it references the Death Zone from The Five Doctors serial, based on a rumor that the big catastrophe of the season will be a release of a ton of different DW baddies, ranging from the Daleks to the Cybermen to the Sontarans and more from the zone.

My personal guess would be that it's a leftover effect from the test runs of the Reality Bomb. Another possibility is that Pandorica is the jail in which Prisoner Zero was being kept, and all of the cracks lead to other cells beside his own, many of them quite possibly holding even worse criminals than him and being overseen by even more zealous and dangerous guards than the Atraxi. It could be some experiment of the Rani's, or it could be the effects of some scheme by the Meddler, since there are rumors circulating that he's going to be returning as portrayed by Patrick Stewart.

Sorry, all I've got right now is speculation.

Agrajag wrote:In other news, I noticed that this season has had way less civilian deaths. Usually people die all over the place, but until Angels we didn't really have any.

I think that may be a Moffat thing. The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances didn't have any deaths ("Just this once, everybody lives!"). The deaths in The Girl in the Fireplace were mostly if not wholly off-screen and happened well before the Doctor and company came along. Blink had deaths in it, but they were from old age after merely being shunted back to live their lives in an earlier time. Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead had a number of deaths . . . but then everybody who died got "saved" and continued on in digital reality, even ol' River Song.

Even the bad guys in each of these stories get off pretty light. It seems to me Moffat just likes happy(ish) endings.

Also, I have a crazy theory that the church guys in Angels are part of the Church of the Doctor (because of how they all know about him, call him Sir, and say "we have faith" when the Doctor asks if they trust him). Or if they're not, they should do an episode about a group like that. A mystical being who travels through time and saves people/planets? He should have at least one religion by now. Or a cult.

The Church of LINDA?
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby kleptoman » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:51 pm

I doubt it as the Doctor seems to dislike religion, they talk about praying a fair bit, which he wouldn't like and they use guns, which he generally doesn't do.

Also I doubt she's a time agent or something like that. Who would give a prisoner a unrestricted accest to all of time and space?
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Agrajag » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:25 pm

Jim North wrote:The Church of LINDA?

I don't know what that is.

kleptoman wrote:I doubt it as the Doctor seems to dislike religion, they talk about praying a fair bit, which he wouldn't like and they use guns, which he generally doesn't do.

He didn't found the religion, it was created around him, so it makes sense that they do things they he doesn't approve of.

kleptoman wrote:Also I doubt she's a time agent or something like that. Who would give a prisoner a unrestricted accest to all of time and space?

They wouldn't. I'm suggesting she was a Time Agent before she was a prisoner. Perhaps something she did in her travels is why she was in prison in the first place.
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Jim North » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:45 pm

Agrajag wrote:
Jim North wrote:The Church of LINDA?

I don't know what that is.

You lucky, lucky beartato.

LINDA stands for the London Investigation 'N Detective Agency and was featured in the second season episode Love & Monsters, one of the worst Doctor Who episodes ever made. It was set up as an organization (which eventually became more like a fan/social club) that followed the Doctor around Earth and tried to learn more about him. Their founder even upset Jackie with his nosing around, which ticked off Rose. The rest of the story . . . well, it's way too depressing to tell here. I wouldn't suggest bothering looking up the episode, either. Bleh.

They're mentioned again later in the Children in Need special Time Crash when the Fifth Doctor mistakes the Tenth Doctor for a fan, possibly one of "that LINDA lot", and indicates that his feelings toward LINDA aren't exactly exemplary, vaguely painting them as stalkers ("I can't have you lot knowing where I live!").
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Joopac_Badur » Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:02 pm

Jim North wrote:The Church of LINDA?

Oh gawd, yeah. That episode really was drivel.

However, the idea of the Church being a sort of cult of Doctor is possible. The Master apparently had his Cult of Saxon, so why shouldn't the Doctor have a bad ass fan club (because LINDA was nothing like anything resembling bad ass)?

Also, having read up on who the Rani is, I feel that it would be pretty cool if she showed up again.

Whoa whoa whoa, wait. What if River Song was a semi-reformed Rani?
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Agrajag » Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:55 pm

Oh right, now I remember that episode. Holy shit was it terrible. I must have just blocked it out.
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Agrajag » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:26 pm

I'm rewatching Silence in the Library now. It's very similar to Time of Angels in parts, what with the whole staying out of shadows and disembodied voices of the dead.

Also River Song's fate totally sucks. I'd rather be dead than stuck in a computer with a couple of idiots I barely know for eternity.

EDIT: Tennant even used the "that was a clever lie" line like in Eleventh Hour. I didn't really think about it it but I guess Matt Smith was trying to be Tennant-ish at the beginning of that ep.

EDIT 2: Rewatching Blink now. If they only turn to stone when you're looking at them, can't you just close your eyes and then shoot blindly around and kill everything? Also the 10th Doctor seems to know all about them in Blink, but seems to rely on River's book for information in Time of Angels. Also of course they look directly into the eyes of the Angels and nothing happens. And of course Sally includes a photo of the Angels in the packet she gives to the Doctor...
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Jim North » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:08 am

Agrajag wrote:EDIT: Tennant even used the "that was a clever lie" line like in Eleventh Hour. I didn't really think about it it but I guess Matt Smith was trying to be Tennant-ish at the beginning of that ep.

He's acting exactly like Tennant at the beginning of Eleventh hour, using several of the Tenth Doctor's catchphrases ("NonononoNONONO!!!"), going all crazy manic, and even using a lot of the same body language.

EDIT 2: Rewatching Blink now. If they only turn to stone when you're looking at them, can't you just close your eyes and then shoot blindly around and kill everything?

There's a chance that this would work with the crapped out Angels in Time, but the other Angels are shown to be extremely fast . . . the conceit would probably be that by the time a shooter could get the second bullet out, the Angel would already be on them and either shifting them back into the past or snapping their neck.

Also the 10th Doctor seems to know all about them in Blink, but seems to rely on River's book for information in Time of Angels.

Ten definitely knows about them, yes, such as what their primary defensive and offensive abilities are, but that doesn't necessarily mean he knows all about them. Things like their secondary abilities, specific habits, and such. I knew that platapuses had poisonous spurs, but it wasn't until I just looked it up now that I learned only the male's spurs are venomous, and that the venom is typically non-lethal to most animals. Confidence in some knowledge is not possession of full knowledge.

Also of course they look directly into the eyes of the Angels and nothing happens. And of course Sally includes a photo of the Angels in the packet she gives to the Doctor...

In Time, Eleven says that the Angels that were on Earth had been scavengers and that the one they are now facing is more like a fully trained soldier. This implies that while the Earth-bound Angels were still nasty dangerous, they weren't as skilled and capable as they could be, lacking some of the abilities that the current threat possesses. The worn down Angels seem to be even less powerful than the scavengers were.
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Joopac_Badur » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:45 am

I agree with everything that Jim North just said. Only slight thing is that while Smith's early moments as the Doctor were manic like Tennant's, I wouldn't say they were entirely like him. The whole food scene seemed completely out of Tennant's character; Tennant was goofy and manic, but he rarely came off as batty.

Also there is this:

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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Jim North » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:12 am

Joopac_Badur wrote:but he rarely came off as batty.

I would disagree and say that Ten's batty moments were often his best, but meh. Arguing exact levels of crazy goofiness fills me with ennui and elan.

Wait . . . maybe not that last one. "Elan" is that pastry thing, right?

Tenth Doctor: The Musical

Just got finished watching that over at TR, myself. While I really really think there are about a hundred different songs that could and should have gone in the place of "All By Myself", most of that was pretty spot on. I especially liked "Without Me" for the Master's return in The End of Time.
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Agrajag » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:10 am

Tenth Doctor: The Musical

Hahahaha! Some of the "All By Myself" parts actually made me laugh out loud. And Eccleston's reaction shots were great too (or should I say Fantastic!)
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Joopac_Badur » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:15 am

I know that probably every Who fan disagrees, but to me, Tennant's best moments were when he acted deadly serious. End of "The Runaway Bride" or pretty much all of the last three specials. Everyone complains about "emo" they were, but frankly I was getting tired of Tennant's goofiness/over-the-top heroism. I prefer my Doctor to be more mellow like Eccelston (and now Matt Smith).

As for the musical, yeah, the bits where the kept playing "All By Myself" were definitely LULZ-y. I also like that Chumbuwumba song being used for Capt. Jack and "Sympathy For The Devil" being used for the Master.
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Re: Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

Postby Agrajag » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:29 am

Joopac_Badur wrote:I know that probably every Who fan disagrees, but to me, Tennant's best moments were when he acted deadly serious. End of "The Runaway Bride" or pretty much all of the last three specials. Everyone complains about "emo" they were, but frankly I was getting tired of Tennant's goofiness/over-the-top heroism. I prefer my Doctor to be more mellow like Eccelston (and now Matt Smith).

There's a difference between mellow and dark. Smith and Eccleston aren't as wacky as Tennant, but they're always pretty upbeat dudes. The reason the specials kind of sucked was because Tennant seemed like he needed some Prozac or something.

I definitely prefer "not completely silly" which is different than "serious".
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