Ultimate Doctor Who Madness

[Jim North]

Also that episode is way funnier now that Tennant and the girl are married.

Oh, are they married now? I'm going to have to start hating Tennant for stealing her away from me. I mean, all of us.

The bastard.

[Agrajag]

They're not married yet I don't think, just engaged.

Here is the first google result I found: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/05/who_marriage/

[Jim North]

They're not married yet I don't think, just engaged.

There's still time!

*packs bags*

[Ben]

Just watched Doctors Wife
It was good. Loved Sexy and the Doctors interaction it was pretty spectacularly well written. But the rest of it was... eh. The stuff with Amy and Rory running around in the tardis aside from seeing all the old tardis stuff was kind of boring. Esspecialy when she found Rory's corpse my first reaction was "Are you fucking shitting me? That's like 3 episodes in a row he's died?!" I just didn't buy it at all. That and House was... confusing. So he was a giant sentient gooey core of a planet that... then became a being of energy and transfered his consiousncess into the Tardis?
So was he a physical being in the core of the planet or was he an energy being?

So yeah, enjoyed it a lot, the doctor and the tardis interaction made up for the rest of the flaws but I'm not with Jim that Gaiman should be writing every episode. That and I don't think I've ever read anything he's done that's actually genuinley scary. (Also Ellis is a better writer, I would fucking kill for a Doctor Who episode written by him even though it wouldn't suit at all)

[Jim North]

What's so hard to understand about a being transferring its consciousness from one body to another? House left his original physical body back in the middle of the planet and took on the TARDIS as his new physical body. It's pretty simple science-fiction.

And I said "creepy", not "scary", which is different. Anyway, your opinions are wrong and silly, so moving on!

THE REBEL FLESH

. . . actually I don't have much to say about this one. It's pretty good, if fairly predictable. And I'm not really sure why it needed to be a two-parter.

[frazzledog]

cause where else would they put voldey who at?

The Flesh, or Gangers? They are Voldey people in my head

[Ben]

What's so hard to understand about a being transferring its consciousness from one body to another? House left his original physical body back in the middle of the planet and took on the TARDIS as his new physical body. It's pretty simple science-fiction.

I don't know it just seemed like the episode asked you to buy a lot without any explination. I mean "This is Dr Who" only takes me so far.

Going outside the universe.
Sure
Finding a planet there
Wait how did it get there?
The Planet is alive.
Yeah I can buy that.
It eats TARDIS's
Uh
Also it can take a TARDIS soul out and put it in a body
Wait what how?
Before the TARDIS actually loses it's soul
Uh... time stuff?
Then the living planet can inhabit a TARDIS shell
Ok what the fuck?
Oh also the crux of the heart of the episode is that the TARDIS can't talk while it's inhabiting the actual TARDIS shell but House can cause... well fuck you that's why
Ok now you're just being a dick.


I mean I get that they don't have to explain everything that would be boring, but the episode literally explains nothing. It just seems like a way to get The Doctor and The TARDIS to talk to each other. And don't get me wrong that was fucking great. But it just seems like the rest of the episode was an after thought after that.

It was a great episode to watch, I laughed, I cried etc etc (No really that ending :'( ) but it's one of those things that the more I think about it the more it bugs me.

[Jim North]

There's three very simple ways the planet could have gotten in the universal bubble . . . it formed there on its own, House put it together for himself, or it came in the same way everything else came in or went out: through the huge cosmic doorway. Y'know, that big path that everything else in the bubble came in through.

What's difficult to believe about House eating TARDISes? They grow those suckers, y'know, so they're almost organic. It's not hard to believe that there's something out there that evolved to eat the basic stuff that TARDISes grow from and might very well consider time-energy rich TARDISes to be the best snacks in the universe. Even if they weren't more or less some coral-like substance, there's plenty of stuff in the Who-verse that's been shown to eat all kinds of weird things. Hell, the Nestene basically feed on industrial pollution and polymer strings.

Soul/brain/mind transfers have happened before in Doctor Who, not to mention in, like, every single science-fiction franchise ever. And a creature evolved to eat TARDISes would undoubtedly have developed the ability to remove the soul at some point.

I don't get the "Before the TARDIS actually loses its soul" part. Do you perhaps mean how they showed the soul getting put into the girl in the cold opening? You do know they don't have to show everything in strict order during an episode, right? It was just shown early for dramatic effect. It doesn't mean that Sexy was actually pulled out that long before all the systems started shutting down, and it's not an uncommon storytelling device.

I guess you do have a point on the living planet inhabiting a TARDIS shell. That's just not possible. After all, scientists in real life have tried several times to force living planets to transfer into TARDISes, and so far no success. So those mechanics are readily understood by any schoolchild and what the fuck, man. Seriously. You're going to complain because they didn't slap some absolutely meaningless technobabble on a standard science-fiction body swap? So the Doctor didn't take the time to rattle off a convoluted explanation about exactly how a living planet's essence could inhabit the body of a time/spaceship. So what? Sexy would have already known the logistics of the event herself, and even if the less knowledgeable companions had been there, there wouldn't have been much time for an explanation anyway since it was kind of an emergency situation. And it's not that hard to understand. The living essence from one thingy went into another thingy because of pseudosciencey stuff. Bam. Explanation done. But in the end, the most important reason it wasn't explained in detail was because it wasn't important to the story how he did it. That he did it at all was the only important bit.

And the reason why the TARDIS can't talk to the Doctor and his companions is shown in the show. When in her natural habitat, the TARDIS's consciousness is completely non-linear, occupying all of her space and time at the same time. All of her communication has to be indirect at best (such as directing the Doctor where to go from time to time) since if she tried to contact her passengers directly it wouldn't make the slightest bit of sense to them whatsoever. It would just come out as undifferentiated garbage to their ears. Hell, even when she was forced into a strictly linear existence she was having trouble communicating with everyone for that very same reason. House on the other hand is used to a linear existence and has a linear consciousness, thus he can communicate just fine. He undoubtedly wouldn't have been able to use the TARDIS shell near as well as Sexy could as a result, but fine enough for his purposes, and linear communication would have still been within his grasp since it's what he's used to and capable of.

Most of the stuff you're complaining about is stuff that didn't really need an explanation, while the rest of it is stuff that has a readily available explanation right there in the context of the show. You didn't even really have to look hard for 'em. They pretty much all but outright said the reason Sexy couldn't talk in her natural state. And, y'know, huge cosmic doorway for the planet.

EDIT: I may have been a bit over-sarcastic a few times in this post. Sorry 'bout that. I think I'm gonna go lay down for a bit until Doctor Who stops getting me so worked up.

[Ben]

See the thing is I'm ok with most of the stuff that doesn't get explained. It's just that House going into the TARDIS pushed my willing suspension of disbelief that little bit too far.

Yeah body swaps are really common in sci-fi but they usually have some build up or bullshit explanation.

I guess it didn't help that the bits inside the Tardis with Amy and Rory just.... weren't that interesting.

Overall though I guess I am kind of Knitpicking I really did like the episode and the stuff with Sexy/Doctor was just... fucking perfect really. That shit was Gaiman in his element it really was. But yeah I didn't really like the rest of his stuff and honestly think he would have been better off doing one of the more fantasy focused episodes rather than such an obviously sci-fi one cause that's the stuff he obviously loves.

I may have been a bit over-sarcastic a few times in this post. Sorry 'bout that.

Haha don't stress man, I know you get into this stuff and I don't take it personally

[Ben]

Double post to change the subject.
I figure you're probbably the best person to ask this Jim.
I've been curious about picking up the DVD's for the old show lately. I've seen all of the reboot since eccleston but barley any of the old stuff. Just a bunch of the really early stuff (William Hartnell, I think it was actually the very first couple of episodes actually) and... it wasn't really that good. I mean I get that the special effects are going to be arse cause it was made in like 1940 on a shoe string budget but they were boring.
I'm pretty sure that's just got to do with it still finding it's feet and shit, were would be a good place to jump into the old series that would be similar in story and pacing to the new stuff?

[Jim North]

I know you get into this stuff

Oh God it's true, Doctor Who is all I have left! The massive posts I usually put in after every episode must have tipped you off! I'm actually rather surprised at myself that I don't have much to say about the latest one. It didn't really feel like filler like the pirate one did, but it didn't feel like anything really special either. It's just kinda . . . there. I'd say it was kind of a stock episode, but if it had stock in it, it probably would have been better.

I'm pretty sure that's just got to do with it still finding it's feet and shit, were would be a good place to jump into the old series that would be similar in story and pacing to the new stuff?

As far as pacing goes? Nowhere. Like, literally, not a single spot in the entire series would be a good place to jump in. All of the old episodes were extremely slow, almost glacial. The usual serial length is two hours long, and a number of them go up into three and four hours, packed to the gills with filler scenes and running around with no real purpose.

Story-wise you'll find a lot of great stuff, however. If they had just trimmed the fat, there are a good number of the old serials that would probably fit in with the much leaner current episodes with little problem.

Most people will probably tell you to hit up the Fourth Doctor. And admittedly he does have a fair number of good storylines. My own personal recommendation as always, however, is the first couple of seasons from the Fifth Doctor's run. It gets crap in his later seasons, unfortunately (which was one of his reasons for leaving the series, in fact), but if you stick with Castrovalva through The King's Demons/The Five Doctors, you should be well rewarded. Another upside of dropping in that late is that by that time almost all the serials were limited to the two hour length, meaning they did get on a little bit faster than the First Doctor stuff. Personal favorites of mine from that season are Kinda (which feels so much like a Tenth Doctor episode sometimes it's insane) and Mawdryn Undead (which has a really nice if somewhat convoluted plot).

After that I'd suggest trying out the Seventh Doctor. His seasons bear the indelible mark of the 80's (I warn for those who may not like the 80's like I do), but take some very interesting and often dark turns even amongst the neon lights and super-teased hair. If you don't watch any other of his episodes, I highly recommend Paradise Towers at the very least.

[Ben]

Cool, I'll see if my DVD store has the fifth doctors series next time I'm there. Cheers.

I'd say it was kind of a stock episode, but if it had stock in it, it probably would have been better.

Are we talking actual Stock, or stock as I imagine him (A giant really chilled out Polar Bear that watched everything with bemused amusement)

[Jim North]

I'd say it was kind of a stock episode, but if it had stock in it, it probably would have been better.

Are we talking actual Stock, or stock as I imagine him (A giant really chilled out Polar Bear that watched everything with bemused amusement)

Yes and fuck yes.

[Agrajag]

Just watched The Rebel Flesh since iTunes finally put it up for download. And it was pretty much a nothing episode. I've very much enjoyed all this season's episodes so far, and I think this season is going much better than last (I'm not a fan of either Beast Below or Victory of the Daleks, and I think pirate-episode and Gaiman-episode are both far superior).

Rebel Flesh provokes no reaction in me though. I feel like not much happens, it's just sort of a setup for the second half of the two parter. All the major plot points could have just happened in the first 15 minutes or so of a one-part episode. But whatever. I still enjoyed it better then The Hungry Earth, which is last season's comparable two parter. (EDIT: On further reflection, maybe Time of Angels is the comparable two-parter from last year, in which case Rebel Flesh is a let-down). It wasn't anything amazing, but it wasn't offensive either, so I'll chalk that up as a win.

I did feel like Amy is sort of being a dick though in not wanting to help the Flesh. And I'm sort of surprised Rory's experiences being a Nestene hasn't been brought up, since it's pretty comparable (and probably the reason why he's so sympathetic to the Flesh).

Also that mystery eyepatch sliding door window lady thing is starting to annoy me. It was interesting at first, but just throwing it in every episode without any new information given seems kinda dumb. Same with the Positive/Negative birth scanner. Just putting a shot of that in almost every episode seems pointless. And it makes the episodes less comprehensible when watched stand-alone.

[Jim North]

While I still like Creepy Eye Lady just fine myself, I do agree that her appearances would be much better if she said something each time instead of just showing up. And it should always be something that seems strange and nonsensical until the proper context is finally given in the final episode, which strings each non-sequitur phrase into a cohesive whole when viewed in the proper order.

But yes, the baby scanner should definitely go. I think we all got the point after the first couple of times, and unlike Creepy Eye Lady, I don't think there's really anything you could add to jazz up the scanner. It certainly doesn't help that it's not even a different shot. I'm pretty sure it's the exact same animation each time, with the slow scanning that gradually speeds up. At least Creepy Eye Lady has some different textures going on with her Creepy Door Window.