Ultimate Comic/Webcomic Madness!

[Kelso]

Re: New 52 Superboy.

Spoiler: show

Aw, we're doing this again?
So instead of Superboy being a Krytonian/Human hybrid clone made to replace Superman after his apparent death, Superboy is now a a Kryptonian/Human hybrid clone made as a... weapon? The powers are all the same, only dialed to eleven, and Luthor so far seems to be removed entirely in this incarnation. But it just feels like treading the same water with minor changes made for change's sake.
Okay fine, but then what exactly was the point of this reboot then? Superboy had finally become an interesting character as Conner Kent, as he grew up from his beginnings as stereotypical 90s douche in a leather jacket, into the fun to read character he was in the Teen Titans and Adventure Comics books. The idea of a reboot doesn't bother me so much as the fact that they've just gone back to 1992 to make it edgier. A whole new Superboy character would have been a more interesting read for me.
Instead, it's the same problem I'm been having with most of the New 52 books. I don't understand what counts anymore. Is the 90s Superboy gone completely now, or is this just a retconning of his origin? Is all the past 90s Superboy history supposed to mesh with this somehow? If not, then why give new Superboy so much of the same back story. It's just confusing. I know part of the point of the reboot is to create a jumping on point for new readers, but I expect they'll be just as confused by this incarnation as they would be just jumping into a new series that relied on the existing continuity. Instead, now the old readers will be confused as well, but maybe I'm just dull.

Maybe it would help if I had read any of Flashpoint, but then again, wasn't one reason for the reboot so that I wouldn't have to?
A part of me hopes that this all turns out to be happening on one of the other 52 worlds in the multiverse and 12 months from now everything goes back to what I've come to consider DCU proper, but now I probably sound like the fans during Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Edit: Oh Geez DC, you are so close with this digital distribution stuff. So close.
Same day release as physical copies: excellent.
Same price as physical copies: No! Bad DC!
I have a hard enough time justifying purchases at $3 a pop for stuff I will subsequently own forever. I will never pay $3 for the same thing, only immaterial and in my possession for as long as my iphone works. Which will probably be 3-4 years if I'm lucky. I'm just going to go to the store. Which is good for retailers mind you, but saying that your digital distribution is changing anything like this is just hollow lip service.

[Ben]

so can someone explain the whole kerfuffle over starfire to me? From what I gather people are upset because starfire is a bad role model for a 7 yearold girl.... in a comic where she teams up with a heroin addict and a mass murderer?

Am I fucking missing something here?

[Tekkactus]

The difference is that Red Hood and Arsenal are known shitheads by everyone familiar with the characters. Starfire, on the other hand, gets buttfucked by the Teen Titans Go continuity because not a lot of people are aware that there are two Starfires and the one they're more familiar with, the ditzy naive kawaii-desu Hynden Walsh version, isn't the one DC proper uses.

Basically Starfire is a terrible character and should have never left the 80's.

[Agrajag]

It's just the latest in a list of long complaints about the comics industries treatment and depiction of female characters (and female writers/artists for that matter). Not only is Starfire portrayed as a braindead nymphomaniac, but all the other female characters have been further dumbed down and/or sexed up. Starfire is just the easiest/quickest one to explain and take screenshots of.

But yeah that whole comic she appears in seems to be total shit.

From what I've seen of the New 52, DC has only succeeded in making everything worse and their canon more needlessly complicated. Here's a crazy thought: just write a friggin superhero story. All Star Superman just did whatever the fuck it wanted to and it's amazing. You don't to reboot anything or give any explanation or have a bajillion crossovers (there's apparently some mysterious lady hidden in the background of every new issue, clearly already gearing up for their big mega crossover next year where EVERYTHING IS CHANGED FOREVER AGAIN). The Batman cartoon or Brave and the Bold didn't worry about contradicting each other or TAS or JLU. Guess what, no one cared, and they all turned out fine.

[Agrajag]

Oh also, not only are the digital comics way over priced, but because the iPad screen is smaller than a comic page all the art is pixelated and it's impossible to read any of the text without zooming in. So that's a great product right there.

[Ben]

I mean I get comics aren't exactly the most gender equel form of media in the world and the industry really does need some decent femenisim going on.

But it seems like the women that are getting up in arms about the ant feminisim thing with DC at the moment are just straight fucking retarded. It's like they look at a laundry list of problems and some how manage to pick out every single insignificant bullshit idea while ignoring the legitimate ones.

I mean look at the whole thing over Wonderwomans pants.
It's like... there are serious problems with Wonderwomans comics and the fact that it changes creative teams more often then some people change underwear. It's an aimless pointless series that's had every peice of decent characterisation ignored and rebooted every 6 months or so by a new writer who wants to 'fix wonderwoman'
None of the insane femmenist rants seemed to worry about the fact that the premier woman of comics can't hold a creative team and has a comic that is an unfocused mess. Instead they focused on her pants? I mean are you shitting me? How about you worry about defining a characterisation for her and a solid supporting cast first, is she supposed to be the premirer emmisary of peace and love, a born and raised warrior with take no shit attitude, a fucking secret agent or jesus what was the pants one? Like a street level teen hero or something retarded? That seems kind of like a more pressing matter then weather she has pants or not (The pants looked stupid as well so fuck that)

As for the whole star fire thing, they've taken a character that has always been basically shameless fap bait. and put it in a situation that makes it seem kind of seedy and weird. She comes off as really weird and a little creepy in the comic to me. The whole fact she can't really remember anyone she's had a realtionship with is kind of sad. And honestly it's not like she was a nun before hand. She had an outfit that could generously be described as 'well placed belts' for gods sake. I don't think anyone in this comic is supposed to be role model mateiral. And acting like it's some great insult by DC that she isn't appropriate for a 7 yearold in a comic that has people being bloodily murderd within the first 3 pages is just stupid.

[Robert McSantos]

Basically Starfire is a terrible character and should have never left the 80's.

As for the whole star fire thing, they've taken a character that has always been basically shameless fap bait. and put it in a situation that makes it seem kind of seedy and weird.

Pretty much.

The whole "alien race who loves promiscuity because they're so much more advanced than us" trope has always been an excuse to objectify women and disguise it as progressivism. Is Red Hood and the Outlaws horrible? Yes. Is it any worse than when Marv Wolfman did the same thing 30 years ago? No.

[Agrajag]

Is it any worse than when Marv Wolfman did the same thing 30 years ago? No.

That's not really an excuse. Things should have improved in the last 30 years, not stayed the same.


Because of the Teen Titans tv shows and comic books, Starfire should have been a great character to totally redo in the comics and could have had great appeal to the mainstream audience that DC is going for. It's the same reason I assume they put Cyborg on the Justice League, because they figured fans of the cartoon would know him (also they needed a black guy I guess). The whole thing is just indicative of 1. The "relaunch" is really more of the same 2. DC is bad at business and doesn't really seem to have their shit together.

[Robert McSantos]

Is it any worse than when Marv Wolfman did the same thing 30 years ago? No.

That's not really an excuse. Things should have improved in the last 30 years, not stayed the same.

Because of the Teen Titans tv shows and comic books, Starfire should have been a great character to totally redo in the comics and could have had great appeal to the mainstream audience that DC is going for. It's the same reason I assume they put Cyborg on the Justice League, because they figured fans of the cartoon would know him (also they needed a black guy I guess).

You're preaching to the choir. I agree with you 100%. Cartoon Starfire may not have been the most compelling character on that show, but she was certainly leaps and bounds better than any version of Starfire from the comics has ever been (and that's coming from someone who usually prefers the original comics over their adaptations in other media).

I do find it ironic that many of the people who say Starfire should have been made more like the animated portrayal are the same people who raged at DC for making Barbara Gordon into Batgirl again.

[Jim North]

How dare they like the version of a character from one medium as well as a version of another character from another medium! Those crazy peoples! Don't they know they can only like stuff from one medium at a time?! Go full cartoons or go home, that's what I say!

[Agrajag]

Yeah, it's not that they're for or against the cartoon specifically, they're just pro-whatever the best version of the character is. Cartoon Starfire is clearly superior. I would argue that Oracle Barbara Gordon is way better than Batgirl-version (and lots of people seem to agree with that).

[Ben]

ok personlly I'm super glad that it's not cartoon starfire. I fucking hated toon fire and spent most of the show wanting to punch her in the face. She was obnoxious.

[Tekkactus]

Babs is a lot less clear cut... I think Oracle is a great character and I wouldn't ditch her by choice, but at the same time Babs was still the best Batgirl, so I dunno!

As for Starfire, Occasionally annoying > wooden plank with glowing tits. Any day, all days.

[Ben]

I wouldn't say occasionally annoying, I'd say constantly annoying. She was a horrible shrieking combination of every shitty anime steryotype rolled into one obnoxious horrible character. I can ignore boring non event far more easily.

Also Cass was the best Batgirl.

[Robert McSantos]

I'm not saying you have to agree with the decision, just sympathize with the reason why it was made.

Of course everyone's going to wish for a composite DCU, cherry-picked from multiple alternate universes to suit their own personal tastes. But as Ben here demonstrates, there will always be be some who take the dissenting view. Because of that, it's hard to base an argument on subjective opinion.

Claiming that Starfire should have been based on her characterization from the TV show because a lot more people watched that than have ever read her in a comic is a much stronger argument. But if you're going to say that, you also need to acknowledge that Barbara Gordon has been Batgirl on five different shows and was only Oracle on that cancelled Birds of Prey pilot.